Textiles Talk

Info desired on Citabrias

Question:

Bob: Fabric life depends on what fabric – today’s polyesters will last longer than recommended internal wing inspections.  It has been suggested by my rag and tube mechanic that 15-20 years between complete internal wing inspection is the limit.  If hangered the fabric will last longer than that.  Cotton fabric generally does not last as long. Pete Champ Driver

Response:

First, Tab books publishes a book called "all about Decathalons, Cit. Scouts" by Don Downie (?).  Sportys used to carry it. I would suggest getting that for basic facts and configuration info. Second.  Don’t buy it if its been repainted with enamel (car paint). The original fabric will eventually wear out from friction with the airframe, hangar rash, Cessna drivers, etc.  It won’t rot, it will just get holes over which you will apply patches.  from 5 feet away, it will look fine.  In the sun, the dope will fade and get brittle.  It will take several years for this to happen. Darker colors fade more than light, Red is the worst. Car paint makes it harder to make a fabric repair, gets brittle cracks and peels off.  Come seem my Decathalon for first hand evidence.  Even with the flexitive additive that is promoted, it cracks.  Dope is eaiser to repair, but fades.  The new polyurathanes don’t fade, but are difficult to repair.   As far as recovering and painting goes, beats me.  I would guess that its $3 to 4K in materials and that amount again in labor. I would not recommend tiedown outside as the norm.  The sun will damage the apperance and depreciate your aircrafts value, even more so for a fabric covered ship. Engine life seems to be the same as any other aircraft.  The Lycoming Cam sickness is present as well.  Most don’t have oil filters, so 25hr intervals for oil changes is typical of the owners I know. Most owners have switched from an acid battery to a gel cel, there is a kit from American Champion to do this.  Its a good idea as the acid does cause some damage and is a constant problem if you do akro and go inverted or negative. Behind the rear baggage bulkhead all the way to the tail are cheap plywood formers that are there for apperance (of the fabric) they warp and buckle and let the fabric get slack, which causes the dope/paint to crack and fall off.  Part of the pre-purchase would be to take a good look behind the bagage compartment and look for this.  The fix is to slit the belly and reach inside and replace or patch these formers with new (and better!) wood. Solo from the back seat,.. why?  Its not ok in my Decathalon, don’t know about Cit. There are two ADs on mine to worry about, they should apply to a cit.  The first is on the front seat, they have broken at the hinge while in flight.  recurring inspection or replace ($350+/-).  Wing strut attach fittings are to be replaced. About $500..   On annual, there are two big things to look for.         a. Spar: its spruce, look for cracks, around strut         attach fittings and butt.  The Bellanca club has         some good guidelines for what to look for.  Also,         the ribs are nailed to the spar, check for loose or missing         nails.  They work loose in normal flight, and in akro.         If the aircraft has been on its back, you need an even         more careful inspection.  Contact the club for more         details.  Rib nails are a yearly problem, you         learn to deal with it.  The plane won’t fall from         the sky if a few are loose or missing, but you don’t         want it to get out of hand.         b.  Landing gear u bolts.  These stretch and crack         if there are a lot of hard landings.  They should         be removed and inspected every (500?) hours.  There         are some better replacements available now.  Make sure         your a&p checks them, yours are probably ok         but check them anyway. Is it safe for akro?  I would not push it hard, unless the fabric has been off the wings in the last couple of years and a complete inspection done.  Light akro should be ok, after your A&P checks things out carefully (spar, nails, ribs, struts, controls, etc) As far as a trainer goes, I don’t think you can beat it.  The breed is stable and docile and won’t try to bite you too hard if you screw up.  They are a treat to fly. Good luck. 8KCAB – 2534Z — San Diego, CA / Patagonia, Arizona   6 Autos, 4 Airplanes, Many powerTools, No house; Need dog.

Response:

: OK Bob, just exactly what effect do CESSNA DRIVERS have on a rag and : tube contraption :-} Well, I guess they either collide with his aircraft, or they get in and fly it into things directly . -Ron

Just checking. I thought it might be head lice from the Cessna pilots eating the fabric :-] Tim Kramer N30450 C-177A

Response:

First, Tab books publishes a book called "all about Decathalons, Cit. Scouts" by Don Downie (?).  Sportys used to carry it. I would suggest getting that for basic facts and configuration info. Second.  Don’t buy it if its been repainted with enamel (car paint). The original fabric will eventually wear out from friction with the airframe, hangar rash, Cessna drivers, etc.  

OK Bob, just exactly what effect do CESSNA DRIVERS have on a rag and tube contraption :-} Tim Kramer N30450 C-177A

Response:

: OK Bob, just exactly what effect do CESSNA DRIVERS have on a rag and : tube contraption :-} Well, I guess they either collide with his aircraft, or they get in and fly it into things directly . -Ron

Response:

.. or ground loops the things!  (if no damage done a ground loop is better than an E ticket ride.) Champ driver

Response:

OK Bob, just exactly what effect do CESSNA DRIVERS have on a rag and tube contraption :-}

uuuh, fabric corrosion? Seriously, a VERY good source of information for anyone wanting to use a Citabria for aerobatics is the IAC "Technical Tips" series.  It covers problems encountered flying aerobatics in (mostly) Pitts & Citabrias/Decathalons.  The list of what breaks and where is lengthy, thought provoking and a necessary precaution to flying acro in these ships.  I owned a 7ECA for a few years in the late ’70’s.  The Citabrias have nice elevator & rudder response, but the ailerons are very heavy.  Spades are STC’d and help some.  The Decathalon is a much nicer flyer.   Too, the 7-series planes are real pigs inverted, with that high-lift, flat-bottomed wing.  The inverted stall is 80-85 mph for -1G flight.  You don’t really need the inverted system, cause the inverted maneuvers are so limited anyway.  Skip the flaps, too, unless you’re towing gliders or banners.  The 115 & 150 hp versions seem to me to perform about the same, but the 100 hp is distinctly lower performance.  A skylight is nice.  An extra latch on the upper part of the door is a necessicity for rolls to the right.  Snap rolls are fun, but hard on the plane.  Don’t do acro with full 38 gallon tanks, or you’ll end up cracking them.  There’s not really enough room for backpack ‘chutes; best are the seatpacks and the special seats to go with them. All in all, the 7- and 8- series are very nice planes and have no real competition in the marketplace.  The prices tend to reflect that (high).  Condition ranges from good to junk.  Anything from the ’60s & 70s should have had a major airframe rennovation by now, or else expect lots of trouble. — Jeffry Stetson … Comm ASEL, Pvt SES & Glider, Instrument Airplane                    EAA, SSA, AOPA, IAC, MAPA                    Mooney M20E "Superduper 21"                    Salto H-101 "Shiva – The Cosmic Dancer"

Response:

I’m currently looking at a 79 Bellanca which appears to be in excellent shape. The plane has been hangered its entire life and the mechanic who maintains the plane has an excellent reputation. I haven’t had a prebuy inspection yet. The fabric is original. The 150 lyc has about 1000 hrs on it. Questions are how long does fabric last if properly maintained, any idea on valuation ,any engine concerns, etc? My first plane so i’m not sure how to go about it? Bob

Response:

I’m (very tentatively) considering buying a Citabria, and I was wondering about things such as maintenance costs, things to look out for, good qualities, and bad qualities.  For example, if you have the plane at a tiedown in the sun all of the time (in Southern California) instead of in a hangar, how long does the fabric last and how much does it cost to replace including painting? As for the following, I realize that exact figures would depend on which type of Citabria is involved as well as the particular details of the plane, but even rough estimates will be useful to me in getting a better financial picture.  How much is a major overhaul of the engine approximately and how often (in tach time) does it have to be done? What are some fair price ranges for buying used Citabrias?  What’s the fuel consumption like?  Can it be soloed from the back seat?  What’s the cruise range?  What’s its service ceiling?  What’s its cruise speed?  Is the Citabria an acceptable plane to train in? Is it safe to do aerobatics in a 20+ year-old Citabria that has passed a thorough prepurchase inspection? Finally, what do you particularly like and dislike about the plane? Would you recommend that I get one if I am after a relatively inexpensive plane that will allow me to do some casual aerobatics and recreational cross countries where speed is not a major concern and where I want to carry one other passenger?  If not, is there another plane that you recommend for those purposes?

Response:

Filed under: cotton fabric

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